Length: 49:20
[Intro Music: "Hip Hop Instrumental 2" by Ketsa]
Jo'Hannah: Hey guys, I'm Jo'Hannah Valentin.
Shay: And I'm Shay Milner.
Jo: And you're listening to: Black Tea.
Shay: Black Tea is a podcast through Vanderbilt University that strives to highlight underrepresented and undiscovered perspectives on campus. Our goal for this podcast is to include everything from self care options available on campus, interviews with faculty of color and minority student orgs on campus, and showcasing black artists and authors.
Jo: As the name states, on every episode we'll be drinking different types of tea and talking to you about black and brown people, organizations, and issues.
Jo: Today, we are drinking Honey Vanilla Chamomile Tea by the brand Celestial Seasonings.
Shay: This is especially relevant for me because, whenever I need to take a little self-care break— whether that be before bed or throughout the day if I'm feeling especially stressed out— I brew up this delicious tea, and it always calms me down.
Jo: That's adorable shay, love it.
Jo: So, the theme of our episode today is "Taking control of our lives through self-care."
Shay: And, our quote of the day is: "If we give our children sound self-love, they will be able to deal with whatever life puts before them." And, that is by the author bell hooks.
Jo: You know, this quote really reminds of that phrase, like "it takes a village to raise a child—"
Shay: —yeah—
Jo: —so, I just think that, like, a village with self-love is, like, the most amazing thing, just to have people around you supporting you and helping you to find yourself and love yourself, too.
Shay: And, that idea is reflective of our interview today because it talks about finding self-care through our environment and through the community we surround ourselves with.
[Transition: Water boiling effect]
Jo: So, our self-care tip of the day for you— in addition to the many other tips you may receive throughout the episode— is to walk a friend's dog, or get some puppy love at a local shelter.
Jo: Now, this one is really important to me— kind of like how the tea for this episode is important to Shay— just because I volunteer at the Nashville Humane Association. And, it's just so calming, one— not with the dogs all of the time, but with the cats especially [laughs]— because they just want some love, the dogs always want love, y'know "puppy love is the best love." So, if you ever want to play with some dogs, play with some kittens, play with some older cats— because the older dogs and cats need love, too— you can always volunteer at your local shelter, just find somebody's dog to play with (I mean, a lot of people on campus have those emotional support animals)—
Shay: —yeah. Or, their not emotional support animals and they just have them—
Jo: —they've just got them in their dorms—
Shay: —but I'm not an RA, so I don't care—
Jo: —I hear those meows every night—
[laughs]
Jo: But, yeah, just find somewhere, someone with an animal, or a place with animals that just need that love and human interaction, and you can definitely get the love back from them because animals amazing, they're amazing [laughs].
[Transition: Water pouring effect]
Jo: For today's episode, we will be talking with Dr. Jamye Hardy from the Office of Student Care Coordination, the OSCC. She will be giving us some of her background as a black woman of color in the mental health field, and she will also be giving us some information and tips about how we can implement self-care into our own lives.
[Transition: "Hip Hop Instrumental 2" by Ketsa]
Shay: So would you like to start by introducing yourself?
Dr. Jamye Hardy: Sure. My name is Dr. Jamye Hardy, and I am a Student Care Coordinator here at Vanderbilt University.
Shay: Awesome. So, for these first set of questions, we just want to get an idea of your background in mental health care and especially how that pertains to you being a woman of color.
Dr. Hardy: Mhmm.
Shay: So for the first question, can you describe a little bit about yourself and your background in mental health care?
Dr. Hardy: Sure. Um, the whole time I was in school, I decided that I wanted to help people. And, I thought that I could do a couple of different things like maybe a doctor or maybe a dentist, but I settled on social work based on some social justice work that I had been engaged with in high school. Um, and I really appreciated that experience. So, got to college, I really focused on social work, figured out that I really wanted to help people. And then I got to my senior year, and I had a bit of a freak out moment and I said, “Oh no, I don't know what I want to do anymore. Did I make the right decision? Did I waste all my time in this degree? I don't know what I'm doing anymore.”
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: So, um, I thought that I, um, decided to just think a little bit farther and I really spent some time with my mentors. And so— speaking of my experience of being a woman of color— I definitely have benefited from just other women of color in my profession who have just poured into me because I was open to the experience of listening to what they had to say. So they helped me a whole lot— and I'll talk a little bit about that kind of through the experience— but, I had one mentor who made sure that I was, you know, on track and making sure that I was thinking about the right things that I wanted to do with my career. So, had this mentor, get to my senior year, have this freak out moment. And, I was applying to graduate school at the time, and so I thought that I wanted to do mental health and higher education. At the time, there was not a whole lot of information about how staff people in colleges could really serve students’ mental health by not being a mental health professional. So, I really wanted to incorporate social work into higher education to provide that level of knowledge so that the entire university could really serve the whole student. But, back when I graduated, that really wasn't as big as it is now. So. I was looking for programs, decided upon one program, and I chose that particular school because they offered me a scholarship, they offered me an assistant ship, they offered me a job and I said, "well, that sounds good to me."
[laughs]
Jo: Make that money.
Dr. Hardy: And so I went, and it was one of the worst experiences I have ever had in my life. Um, the environment that I was in was just not conducive to who I am. I'm a city girl, I'm from Nashville. And the school that I went to was the exact opposite of a city. So, um, during that year, I had the experience of reflecting on kind of, this is what I want to do, higher education. I'm a social worker, but really understanding that I needed to be in a space where I felt comfortable in order to accomplish the things that I really wanted to do. Um, so, thought very long and hard about my. . . the time that I spent in my graduate program, and I ended up leaving that graduate program. In the middle. And, there were a few people who were not very happy with that, but I had to make the decision that was for myself. So, I always like to say that I really learned the difference between giving up and moving on in that setting. And, I realized that in order to do the things that I want to do for myself, I need to make that happen for myself.
Dr. Hardy: So, decided to go back and get my. . . another degree in social work, got my master's degree in social work focused on mental health counseling. I did adolescent substance abuse— which was an awesome experience. Um, and then also worked with people in the community as well. And then finally after I graduated, had another mentor who told me that I needed to start thinking about what I wanted to do with the rest of my life or how I wanted to now help people since I've been working on this. And, we were looking for jobs for mental health and higher education, and at the time I wanted to move back to Nashville, and there was not a position available. So, I decided to create my own job. And, my mentor— another woman of color— she encouraged me to do that. She enlightened me and told me that other people create positions all the time, and that had just never been anything that anyone ever told me before. I kind of was in the mindset of I need to apply to a job that already exists, somebody else needs to pay me, and that is how I'm going to make my living. And, that one mentor— and by her kind of allowing me to think about what it is that I really wanted to do and just creating a proposal for a position— really was mind blowing. And, so I created my first position out of graduate school. I, um, submitted the proposal to a couple institutions who did not have mental health counseling on their campus, and essentially started to. . . start my work as a mental health counselor on college campuses or a social worker on college campuses. So, not only providing mental health counseling, but also helping students get connected to other resources like, uh, the positive peer groups that are important in your life and helping students get connected to their faculty members, and teaching students how to have that conversation or how to be in that academic setting and also how to take care of yourself, which is what we're going to talk about today.
Jo: Wow, that's amazing.
Shay: That is so beautiful.
Jo: I love how you just said, "I'm just going to take charge and make my own job—
Shay: —exactly—
[laughs]
Shay: —right out of grad school.
[laughs]
Shay: Um, that is so interesting because one of the biggest hopes that I had for Vanderbilt was that they would have a social work degree— 'cause I want to go into social work too. I'm a sociology major, so it was like the closest thing. And, it's so amazing how you're just like, I dunno, you went through all of these experiences and you come out making your own position and getting a doctorate. Like, everything's great
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: It's mind blowing, it's really mind blowing. And, it was the only thing that changed between me creating my position and going into somebody else's position was somebody telling me that I could create my own position. Just the thought had never occurred to me. And then when she told me that it was achievable, I said, well if other people can do it up, I. . . I sure will try—
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: — I will sure work this thing out.
Shay: That is so cool. Um, you mentioned when you were talking about high school that you were involved in a lot of social justice work. Can you explain some of that work?
Dr. Hardy: Yeah, so there was a program, it was called Camp Anytown. This was a camp for high school students. And, the idea behind the program was to bring different students together, take them out of their element. And, we talked about issues of racism, sexism, words that hurt, different ways to have those conversations. And, then we talked about gender bias. What else did we talk about? Uh. . . ability and just the different identities that we all have. But, we talked about it all. And, I really appreciated the experience of taking intentional time to think about things that were intangible. So, um, you can't touch racism, but you can feel it. And, so making space to dialogue and making space to hear other people was something, was something that was really a game changer for me. And, I thought that, "Hey, why don't I learn how to help people have this reflection process on their own, and how can I help, you know, communities learn how they can have these processes themselves as well."
Jo: Wow.
Shay: That line, "you can't touch racism, but you can feel it." That is beautiful.
[laughs]
Shay: Can you also talk about just your process of deciding that you wanted to move on from the graduate program that was making you unhappy? I feel like a lot of students would benefit from knowing that they don't have to stay in a situation that they don't want to.
Dr. Hardy: Mhm, no you don't.
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: No you don't. Oh man. Yeah. Yeah. I can talk about that. Um, so it was hard. It was hard. I think that's really the first thing that comes to mind, and the first thing that's necessary to say because a lot of the things that we need do for ourselves or that would benefit us may not be comfortable in a moment, but the outcome is going to be much better in the long run. So, yeah, it wasn't a fun time. Um, it wasn't what I expected either. And, so just kind of dealing with that emotional process of, okay, I came to this graduate school, I have all of these opportunities. 'Cause I was thinking, well, I've kind of somewhat survived off of scholarships because of the different things that I've tried to put myself into, and so now I've gotten this really great opportunity and I didn't want to be viewed as someone who was ungrateful. I didn't want to be viewed as someone who wasn't intentional about the decisions that they made. Because when. . . eventually, when I said I was going to leave, there were of course comments from other people who were saying, "well you know, why did you come here in the first place?" Or you know, "what, what was it about this that you really didn't like?" And, it really didn't have anything to do with other people. It was just the fact that it wasn't the right environment for me.
Dr. Hardy: There were some other things that kind of went into my thought process. So, I realized that in a graduate program, you are spending a lot of time on one topic. And, the faculty members that I had at the particular time were very focused on the higher education side, and I was very focused on, kind of, blending higher education and social work, and I wasn't in an environment where the faculty members were very educated on that particular topic. And, so I found that in order for me to do what I needed to do, I needed to be around people who were doing that work. So, that was an important component as well.
Dr. Hardy: Um. . . I was sad. I was very sad. I knew that it was below a sadness that was, like, common or standard, I guess you could say. And ,I knew in my heart that I wasn't supposed to be there because I knew that I wasn't supposed to feel that level of sadness. And it wasn't until my boyfriend at the time, he's still my boyfriend—
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy:— my boyfriend at the time, um, he said, "you can do something about your situation." And, I consider myself to be a smart person, but I was just so immersed in that experience that it did not occur to me that I had the power to change what I was doing. And, so just hearing those words of, "you know, you don't have to stay here" was. . .Wow. Like, I can really take steps—
Jo: —yeah, it ended up not feeling like an obligation.
Dr. Hardy: Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, "Oh, like I can apply to another institution, and I don't have to stay here, and I will continue to eat, and I will find another way to feed myself and to shelter myself." And, I realized that the emotional turmoil that I was experiencing was not worth what I was getting out of that experience. And, that was something that I had to consider as well. Because I did want to work in higher education, and I was in a higher education program, and, so I really had to think, "is this something that is going to be essential? Do I need to put some things around myself to persevere through this situation, or do I need to remove myself from the situation?" So, yeah, I definitely learned the difference between giving up and moving on. I consider myself to move on. I don't think I gave up because I knew that that wasn't anything that I was supposed to be a part of any way. Or, I'll say it like this, what I was supposed to get from that program I did, and I was able to take the positive things and move on.
Dr. Hardy: I hope it answer your question.
Shay: Yeah, absolutely.
Jo: So, I think this next question really helps with basically all you've said. How do you think that your own cultural identity as a black woman has influenced the successes you've achieved and your view on mental health care?
Dr. Hardy: Mh. . . Yeah, yeah, that's tough. That's tough.
Jo: Yeah, just because you've had so many mentors and people who have told you that are people of color. So it's like of course that cultural identity has to have some sort of influence.
Dr. Hardy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good. I think there, man, I think there are two sides to that. At least for me and my identity. So, when I was growing up I was very much so a part of an African-American family who told us that you have to work two times harder, three times harder just to be half as good. So, I would say starting in like kindergarten and first grade, like, I always, kind of, had this mindset of "I have to achieve, I have to do better, I have to study." And, just this kind of internal motivation of this is what I'm supposed to do. And, over time that can get a little exhausting.
Jo: Yes.
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: It can get a little exhausting over time. And, at the same time, I think there are pieces of my identity that have really motivated me as well. So, I'e always celebrated Kwanzaa. And, those have been kind of principles that I've kind of embodied. And, as I've gotten older, I've gotten a little bit more intentional about incorporating those things into my life. Um, 'cause, I don't want to point that out there that I was, you know, always a scholar. Uh.. .
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: —definitely a product, after a long period of time, that you see today. Um, but yeah, I think that a lot of the, um, principles of just pride and perseverance on the other side of it, sometimes being overwhelming, I felt really supported. I always felt like my community had my back. I always felt like my community knew that I was going to get this information so that I can come back and bring us all up together. So, very much a collective mindset. So, I definitely felt like I was a part of something, even though I have gone so far in my education now that there are fewer people who look like me, I definitely still have felt the support and the love of my community. Say that second part of your question because I think that mental health piece is a whole otha'. . .
Jo: Um, so you went over the successes. Um, so how has your own cultural identity as a black woman influenced your view on mental health care?
Dr. Hardy: Mhm. Mhm. Okay. So, I did not grow up in a household where therapy or seeking mental health or seeking help was spoken down upon, or there was not a stigma within my household. But, there was in my friends' households. So that wasn't anything that I grew up with personally, but that is something that I knew, kind of, was a thing. Um, and so, being someone who is a person of color in the mental health setting, I've always felt very called to helping our community understand that mental health is not intangible. Um, mental health is not something that you have to pay for. And, I think that in the society that we live in, it can almost, kind of, feel that way. Like, "Oh, you have to go to therapy or you have to pay some coach X amount of dollars in order to help you," but these things that are available to us— like the time that we can take out for ourselves, or the other things like your community and spending time with people who feel you up, and doing things that make sense for you— is really what I have felt called to do. And, I think it's because I am a black woman. I recognize that people who look like me don't necessarily always have the perspective of, "yeah, let's go to therapy!"
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: Um, but that doesn't mean that mental health is not available to you. You don't have to go to therapy in order to be a healthy person. Now, at times it can be very helpful and it can be a very useful tool. But, it is not, I would not say it's 100% necessary 100% of the time for anyone who is trying to be well and healthy.
Jo: I like that answer—
Shay: —thank you—
Jo:— because I feel like a lot of people think, I don't know, this idea that if you're going to treat yourself or help your own mental health, you have to go to therapy. Like you said before, you have to see a doctor. You have to just, like, have this professional look at you, like, "okay, what's wrong with you? Here's your diagnosis, and here's your treatment." That's kind of like the idea around it. But, I like how you said it can be found like in your own home, within your own community, that you don't really have to go to, like, some random professional to get mental healthcare.
Dr. Hardy: Mhm, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm glad you said that. That's another misconception about therapy is that some people think that you'll go there, somebody's going to tell you what's wrong, somebody's going to tell you how to fix it, and then everything's going to become drops and rainbows after the fact. And, therapy is really an opportunity for a human to be your mirror and to allow you the space to process what you are an expert on, which is your own life. And that is something that with each other or even with yourself, you can engage in that process. Um, and there are certain things that you can do, so that is available to you. And we'll talk a little bit about those things.
Jo: I love that.
Shay: Thank you so much for being willing to talk about some of your background and being vulnerable about the challenges you experienced while getting your education as a black woman in the mental health field.
Shay: Next, we will be talking with Dr. Hardy about how we can implement self-care into our own lives.
[Transition: "Hip Hop Instrumental 2" by Ketsa]
Jo: Okay guys. So for this next set of questions we're going to be asking Dr. Hardy about, um, self care options for Vanderbilt students. So, first question, can you describe your role on campus and what is the OSCC, and what services do they provide?
Dr. Hardy: Yeah. So, I'm a Student Care Coordinator in the Office of Student Care Coordination here at Vanderbilt university. And, the purpose of our office is to talk to students about the different resources that are available. We talk about on-campus resources, off-campus resources, and also online resources. Or, some special circumstances— if we have distance students or people who are graduating— we can also help people find support before they leave as well.
Dr. Hardy: The purpose, also, for our office is to have a conversation about what might be helpful. We have a lot of things going on in our lives. You all are Vanderbilt students, you have a lot of things going on.
Jo: Constant stress.
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: And, it can be really difficult to just take a moment to think about yourself. And, so when you set up an appointment with our office, we do have an intake form and that intake form allows you to talk about each area of the Wellness Wheel in relationship to your current experience.
Jo: But what is the wheel?
Dr. Hardy: [gasps] What is the wellness wheel? Well, if you have the Vanderbilt app—
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy:— you can pull it up right now.
Jo: Ooh, we can pull it up right now.
Dr. Hardy: Right? So if you have the Vanderbilt app, the Student Care Network has a— I don't know if we still call it a widget or a button or what have you— but um, if you go there, I think the student care network has a wellness wheel on there. And, if you look at the wellness wheel, you will see that there are all different types of sections to one's life. So, you've got financial health, mental and emotional health, social health, intellectual health is on there. I believe your environment is on there, spirituality's on there as well. So, looking at every aspect of what kind of makes you a human. And so, in our intake form we allow you space to either reflect with words— or on a Likert Scale— with what challenges you're currently experiencing in those particular areas of your life. And then, with that intake form, you will go over that form with your care coordinator and we'll talk about different resources that could be available or that are available to help you to potentially meet some of those needs that you have. Our conversation is very directed towards student needs and student preferences. So, we are looking at students' identities as far as gender identity, race and ethnicity, sexual orientation, anything that might influence what a student might need or want from a particular resource, so that we can make sure that whoever or whatever we connect them with is going to appropriately meet their needs.
Dr. Hardy: So, we have that service, and after we connect students with resources, we also serve as follow-up as well. So, if it would be helpful to any student for us to send you a little message every other week or once a month that says, "Hey, how's it going?"
Jo: I like that 'cause I need reminders.
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: Exactly. We help with accountability, we help with, um, whatever it is that you feel like your personal goals are that you just want some support or help with.
Jo: And, so after that intake form, how long does it normally take to get in contact with your Student Care Coordinator?
Dr. Hardy: I would say that at really high times within the week or within the semester, it might be a week wait. But, typically if there is an emergency, students are able to utilize the University Counseling Center, 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM Monday through Friday. Students can walk into the University Counseling Center for an emotional emergency. Something that I would say: if you feel as though your level of normal functioning— whatever normal functioning is for you— if that is being so dramatically impacted by your emotions that you feel like you are unable to continue on in the way that you have been, then go on in to the University Counseling Center. I like to call it the "emotional emergency room." So—
Jo: —I like that.
Dr. Hardy: Mhm. So, it is not a therapy appointment necessarily that you'll get from crisis care, but it will be much like a triage at the emergency room. So, talking about what it is that we can do right now to serve your needs so that we can get you to the next support resource, whether that's on or off or online counseling or other support resources.
Jo: Awesome. Are there any other integral mental health care services on campus that would be beneficial specifically to people of color?
Dr. Hardy: So, that's a great question. The first thing that comes to mind is, um, "Let's Talk." "Let's Talk" is a drop in opportunity for you to talk to a counselor without an appointment. Currently, uh, there are two African-American— or three African-American— counselors who serve in some of those roles. At times, those will change throughout the semester, just depending on who's available for that particular service. But, the University Counseling Center and the Student Care Network is very intentional about making sure that we have a diverse array of services and service providers. So, it is something that is paid attention to. But, I would say definitely for African-American students because oftentimes we will still hear of the stigma of mental health or the reality of the stigma of mental health that some people experience, and you don't have to have an appointment in order to go into Let's Talk. So that can be really helpful.
Jo: Um, and so with Let's Talk, can you choose the therapist that you end up meeting with, or is it kind of like a. . . do they match you?
Dr. Hardy: That's a good question. So, with Let's Talk, it is the same therapist every session. So, every Tuesday you'll see the same person, every Wednesday you'll see the same person. Since those therapists do change from semester to semester, feel free to reach out to the Office of Student Care Coordination, and we can let you know which therapists are there on which days, if that would make you feel more comfortable.
Shay: And, where it's let's talk housed?
Dr. Hardy: Yeah. So, Let's Talk is housed at satellite locations around campus. So, typically it moves around, but right now for this semester— and last semester as well— we had one in the Eskind, in the bottom of Eskind Library, that was on Tuesdays. On Wednesdays, it was in the Office of Student Care Coordination, and then on Thursdays, it was in Owen, the business school. So, we try to put it in different places around campus where students may be able to benefit from those. And, we move those around based on request and also based on utilization as well. So, if there is a particular location that's not being utilized, um, or as highly as the others, then we might try to utilize that day or time to move it to another space where more students might have access to it.
Jo: Of course. So, what are some self care tips that you think are important practices for college students in general and for students of color specifically?
Dr. Hardy: Yeah. So, I have prepared a couple things. It's a combination between things that my office thought about for this particular podcast, and also some other resources that you can go out and find yourself. So, the first thing that I have on here is "build and maintain your environment" or "build and maintain your community." You have control over what is in your environment. And, that isn't just limited to your physical space. So, that means we're looking at the people you're surrounding yourself with, the food that you're eating, the music that you are choosing to listen to, the activities that you are engaging in. I definitely encourage you to consider your environment as something that influences you and you influence your environment. And, that— I would say— is pretty important for college students because you are in a very critical point in time in your life where you are focused on what it is that you feel like is going to help you get to that next step in life. And, so with that being the primary focus of what you're doing at this point, it's important to take care of yourself in that setting because that can be really stressful. So, here's some things that you can do in order to kind of consider what your environment might be and how you might maintain that. So, number one, think about your past. So what has been good, or what has served you well? What are some things that have motivated you? What are some things that you've found to be really helpful to you? At times, that can be a mentor. At times, that can be a positive friend group. I know, for me sometimes, in order to be productive, I need my good latte from Starbucks.
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: Uh, sometimes I need that candle burning or some incense or I've got plants around me or crystals or just some type of something that is a part of my own practice for myself. But, I definitely encourage thought processes of thinking about what has been helpful to me in the past. During times of high stress or crisis, it can be really difficult to think about what you need. And, so if you've already spent some time thinking about what has helped you in the past, it can be really helpful to kind of pull from that bag, um, when you do get into those moments. Or, if you are starting a self care practice, um, where you are continuing to do those good things for yourself, that can be something that you keep in mind when you are thinking about what to implement into your schedule.
Dr. Hardy: Then you might also think about what you want your world to look like or what it is that maybe is missing. You can also do that by engaging with people who are different from you. So, it can be helpful to engage with people who are from different communities or different backgrounds because that may help you highlight what you like or what you don't. If you've never taken an opportunity to think about what your needs are, it may be really difficult to sit down and start writing that list. So, something that you could do is looking at people who are different from you or who have come from different backgrounds to see if you want to adapt anything that has come from their background, if you just want to respect that from a distance and say "that's something that works for them, but not for me," or something that you want to adopt and says like, "Hey, you know, that's something that I think that I could benefit from, too," and, then, you kind of incorporate it into your life as well.
Dr. Hardy: The last thing I have on here for that particular piece is, it's very natural for us to want that human connection. And, sometimes when we are in environments where we may look different than the people around us, it can feel very lonely or it can feel very isolating. So, I thought it was important for us to talk about today as the first pieces, uh, you have power to control the environment that you have.
Dr. Hardy: Next self care tip is "protect your time." "No" is a complete sentence.
Jo: Oh, thank you for that—
Shay: "'No' is a complete sentence—"
Jo: Thank you for that, I need to repeat that every single morning—
Shay: —period.
Jo: —for my affirmations.
Dr. Hardy: Yes!
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: "No" is a complete sentence. So, when we were talking about this podcast, I love the fact that you all said that it is for "underrepresented and undiscovered" ideas, people, folks, communities, all of those things. And, once those undiscovered or underrepresented people are identified at times, at times they are elevated into places that say, "Hey, we want this to be even further discovered." And, so at times, we can feel a pressure to respond to all of the calls that we're getting to now represent our group or represent the voice that we have. And, that can be an empowering experience. And then, on the other side of that, it can be an overwhelming experience. And so, "no" is a complete sentence. Because if you say "yes" to one thing, you are saying "no" to something else. And, when you say "yes" to something that you really wanted to say "no" to, you may not perform in a way that is reflective of the aesthetic that you want to provide, that you want to give off. Um, or it may not be reflective of your true characteristics. So, it's important to mitigate some of that pressure that you may feel from responding to some of those calls because you are the person who is going to be doing the work at the end of the day. So, taking that time to reflect and understand that saying "yes" to one thing, is saying "no" to something else. And, also knowing that your "no" sometimes can turn into a "yes." "No" can be very nice because you are telling someone, "no, I'm not able to serve your needs." And that is kind [laughs].
Jo: I think that's really important because— especially, like, as a person of color when there aren't that many people of color. Like, let's say we're in a class, and you're, like, one out of, like, three other people of color, and they may not even be black. Like for me, I'm black, so I'm looking for another black person. You end up being, like you said, the representative for your, um, identity for your community. And, that in itself is just a lot of stress. And, then to get so many people saying, "Hey, I want you to do this because you know, you represent this group," "can you do this because you represent that group." And, that's just so much. So, it's really, like, an amazing thing to know that you can say no, and say, like, "okay, I need to take time for myself. I don't have time for you." And even if that may, like you said, may be a benefit. Like, if I were to do that, it may not even be up to par with what I want it to be.
Dr. Hardy: Mhm, mhm. So, my senior year, um, I mentioned that I had a bit of a breakdown and said I didn't know what I wanted to do anymore. I think part of that breakdown also had to do with me doing too many things. I was chapter president of my sorority, I was in step show, but also co-chairing step show. I was running for homecoming queen at the time. I was also in honors college working on my senior thesis. Um. . . right.
[laughs]
Jo: That's a lot.
Shay: That is a lot.
Dr. Hardy: It was a lot. And, my body told me that it was a lot, and I did not listen to my body. And, so this was maybe three days before a step show, right after practice, I had a panic attack. And, if you had ever had a panic attack, it is one of the most scariest moments that you could ever have because it is literally your, your body kind of grasping for air. And, I put myself in that situation, and it was because I did not understand the concept of no. I could have said no to all of these people asking me to be in these leadership positions because I was— of course I was capable of doing these things, and I was good at what I did—but, it turned out that I was running myself so far into the ground that I wasn't doing a great job.
And, all of those wonderful things that they were asking from me turned into them kind of expecting more because I had promised them that they were going to get "Jamye the Awesome Individual" and they got "Jamye the Very Burnt Out, Very Tired Individual." And, that was because I didn't respect my own "No." Um, so I thought that was important to put that in here because you're right, it can feel overwhelming, and you don't have to put yourself in that situation.
Shay: And, that is directly pointed to all of our seniors on campus. Please do not burn out. Especially if you are going to grad school, you have more school ahead, please take it easy.
Jo: Yes, please take your time. You don't have to be in like 15 groups to be excellent. You are excellent just by being yourself just by being here.
Shay: Exactly.
Dr. Hardy: Yup. Yup. Yup. So, I think that leads me into my next one, which is "be mindful of your sphere of influence and your sphere of control." So, your sphere of influence— things that maybe you can say but not directly control. And, then your sphere of control is the things that you actually have control over. So, you don't have control over what other people ask you to do, but you have control over how you respond. You don't have control over somebody's attitude on a particular day, but you have control over what you can respond to, or how you respond to that particular situation. And, taking that moment to realize that you don't have to get upset at a particular thing, if there's nothing that you can do about that situation. Or, you don't have to try to fix everybody's problems because in reality, if being a good friend by listening is what you have control over, then that's what you can do. And, that extra emotional energy that you are spinning your wheels on, things that you are not able to control, you can take that time back because that will be necessary energy for something else that you need to do either for yourself or wherever you are, wherever else you decide to put your energy.
Jo: I needed that.
Dr. Hardy: Mhm.
Shay: Me, too.
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: So, those are the three things kind of from um, us. But, there are two other things that I just wanted to share that are resources that you can search on your own. There is a book called The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom, by Miguel Ruiz. Uh, Mr. Ruiz, in his book, basically lays out four principles that you can utilize in order to gain this personal freedom that we're talking about. So, number one is "Be impeccable with your word." Um, being impeccable with your word, saying what you mean and meaning what you say, but also about the words that you're saying to yourself. Henry Ford has a quote where he says, "Whether you think you can or you can't, you're right." So, thinking about the mindset that you have when you are speaking to others or when you're speaking to yourself, either about your abilities, about the time that you have. Um, I think a quick example of that is, "Oh my gosh, I have all this work to do." That feels overwhelming. But, if you were to say, "Oh my gosh, I have four assignments to do."
Jo: Then, it feels small.
Dr. Hardy: You learned to count to four when you were five, right? You can do that [laughs]. And, that's something that may take that extra level of pressure off so that you can go ahead and finish the work that you were doing. So, be impeccable with your word. Number two, "Don't take anything personally. It says, "Nothing others do is because of you."
Jo: Wow, you're really preaching to me today.
Shay: Man.
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: So, that kind of goes back to that sphere of influence and sphere of control. You can't control other people, and you don't know if somebody has an attitude because they had a bad day or because they have a problem with you. But, that may not be your problem to figure that out. That's, again, additional emotional energy that you don't have to spend and that you can put somewhere else that makes you feel better.
Dr. Hardy: Number three is "Don't make assumptions." So, find the courage to ask questions to express what you really want. It can be really easy to fill in the gaps with the information that we think we know because we're so in a hurry to get to the next point. And, I think it can be challenging to not make assumptions because we want to kind of have everything together, but at times we don't have that information.
Um, and at times that's okay. Um, and so making sure that you are not putting undue stress on yourself just because you want to get to the next step. Challenging negative thoughts is kind of a piece that I wanted to put into that. Challenging negative thoughts can be a part of self-care because it is a part of that self-talk, it is a part of that "not making assumptions." So, when you are challenging negative thoughts, you are asking yourself questions like "Is there a substantial evidence for my thought?" "Is there evidence contrary to my thought?" "Am I attempting to interpret this situation without all of the evidence?" "What would a friend think about this situation?" "If I look at this situation positively, how is it different and will this matter a year from now or five years from now?" So, those are just some brief questions that you can ask yourself when you are not making assumptions.
Dr. Hardy: And then, finally, "Always do your best." "Always do your best" is the fourth and final agreement. And, I really like this one because it recognizes that, number one, we are all just trying to do our best. And we are enough in the offerings that we give on whatever day because that is what we have to offer on that day. So, your best when you have the flu is not the best when you're feeling well. Your best when you are a freshmen is not your best, or not the same as your best, when you're a senior. So, just putting yourself in a place of assuming the best that you have put forth the effort that you have, you have utilized the tools that have been given to you or that you have created for yourself. And, then as you grow you are able to expand what your best looks like for you. So, I think that can also create some space for self-forgiveness when we reflect and think, "Oh I should've did this all," or, "I should have made that decision," and thinking that, at the time, I did my best, and at this particular time, I can make a different choice because I have different tools that are now available to me.
Jo: This is very helpful.
Shay: Yeah.
Jo: So, for our last and final question, although you've touched on this a bit, we just want to ask for those students out there, how would you advise that college students develop a personalized self care routine and recognize what works for them?
Dr. Hardy: Yeah, yeah. So, I would say number one, do things that make sense for you. So, if going to the gym at 5:00 AM is the most exhausting thing that you have ever thought about, then perhaps—
Jo: Yes. That just made me tired.
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: —perhaps it is not part of your self-care plan. So, consider things that are actually going to make sense for you. And, number two, don't compare your self-care plan to other peoples' self-care plans because you can only be you. And, if you try to be somebody else, that's additional work 'cause then you have to learn how to deal with their problems and yours. So, figure out what it is that you need, and then make that list, whether that's in the front or back of your agenda, whether that's a notes piece in your phone, whether you are reminding yourself with a calendar or reminder with our great Iphones that we have.
Um, figure out something that really makes sense for you and your schedule, and not somebody else's.
Jo: Thank you so much for this.
Shay: Thank you.
Jo: Oh my goodness, you've enlightened me. I have—
Dr. Hardy: [laughs].
Shay: Yes.
Jo: Thank you for coming, um, and letting us interview you, and bringing points that a lot of times I think a lot of college students won't think about just for the fact that there's so many resources on campus here that I would have never heard about had I not been in contact with you. So, thank you so much for that.
Dr. Hardy: Yeah, you're welcome.
Shay: Even, like, when you were talking about your own story, I think it's going to be very helpful for people who are pre-health to hear about how you had the support system, and how you went through the process of deciding what was best for you as you went along in your education. So, thank you for that.
Dr. Hardy: Yeah. I think, over time, the best thing that I have learned is to pay attention to what has worked for me. I just achieved my doctorate in the fall, so—
Shay and Jo: Congratulations!
[laughs]
Jo: Black excellence, we love it.
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: So, um, and then somebody brought it up to me the other day, within one decade I got three degrees.
Jo: [snaps] Oh yes.
Dr.Hardy: So, it's possible, you can do it. I will say it's not necessary. I will say I'm very tired.
[laughs]
Dr. Hardy: Um, I am very tired, but I am very grateful for my experience. But, over time, I think that I have been intentional— increasingly intentional— about the experience that I have had, so that at this point I'm able to say, "these are the things that work for me," and "these are the things that I know don't serve me and that I need to eliminate from my environment." But, that didn't come from anybody telling me what I needed, that came from me thinking about the hard things that I've experienced, and the hard things that other people may be have influenced, and then try to figure out how I could have not been in that situation, and what I can do differently. Or, what I can do for myself to heal from those situations so that I can move on and be a great person.
Jo: Amazing.
Shay: Everything you say.
Jo: Everything.
Shay: Thank you so much again, thank you.
Dr. Hardy: You're welcome. It was great being here. Thank you for having me.
[laughs]
[Music: "Hip Hop Instrumental 2," by Ketsa]
Shay: So, like we said in our interview, we will link all of the self-care options and tips in our description. Again, we'd like to thank Dr. Hardy for talking with us, and be sure to check out the OSCC if you'd like to take advantage of any of their resources.
Jo: Yes, Dr. Hardy was absolutely amazing, thank you so much just for taking the time out of your day to talk to us because you really didn't have to, and we're just really grateful for that, and all the information, the wisdom, the thoughts that you had. Your brain is brilliant.
Jo: If you guys have any questions, you know where to find us. We have an email, blackteainquiry@gmail.com. We also have Instagram, Twitter, you name it, we most likely have it. And, you can send us a voice message as well, that link is on our twitter, you can probably just scroll through. We don't have many tweets yet, you'll see it real easy. Also, we'd like to thank Ketsa for our intro music and outro music. Amazing, we love Ketsa.
Shay: And, finally, if you haven't noticed throughout this show, the quality is very different, it's much better, so we'd like to thank Vanderbilt Student Media for allowing us to work in their podcast studio and make something that doesn't actually hurt our listeners' ears.
Jo: So, yes, we'd like to thank Vandy Student Media. Just, thank you so much for showing us the ropes on how to use this expensive equipment, thank you for letting us use the expensive equipment, um, and just thank you for letting us be in this space because really, without it, we'd be sitting there in our rooms recording on a computer or on a phone. So, thank you for that.
Shay: And, remember guys to check out our next episode. We post every Saturday at 4:00 PM, Central Standard Time—
Jo: —Tea Tme!
Shay: Tea time! So, be sure to check out our next episode next Saturday.
["Hip Hop Instrumental 2" by Ketsa]
Jo: This has been Black Tea. Thanks for listening!
Jo and Shay: Cheers!
[Outro: "Hip Hop Instrumental 2" by Ketsa]
Self-care and Mental Health Resources:
The resources and tips that we discuss this episode can be found at https://blackteainquiry.wixsite.com/podcast/episodes/self-care-tips-and-resources!
Credits
Shay Milner, co-host
Jo'Hannah Valentin, co-host
Music by Ketsa at https://freemusicarchive.org/
Episode edited with Audacity
What we're drinking: Celestial Seasonings Honey Vanilla Chamomile Tea, http://www.celestialseasonings.com/products/herbal/honey-vanilla-chamomile-herbal-tea
Today's theme: "Taking control of our lives through self-care."
Quote of the day: "If we give our children sound self-love, they will be able to deal with whatever life puts before them."
Self-care tip of the day: Walk a friend's dog or get some puppy love at a local shelter, https://chasethewritedream.com/self-care-in-college/; you can find volunteer options for the Nashville Human Association at https://nashvillehumane.org/volunteer/.
If you want to create your own podcast, be sure to check out Anchor through the mobile app or at Anchor.fm!
Check out the OSCC!
We want to hear from you! You can reach us through our email, website, or our social media outlets.
Email: blackteainquiry@gmail.com
Website: blackteapodcast.wixsite.com/podcast
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Platforms
Our podcast can be found at: https://anchor.fm/johannah-chanteria
Episode transcript found at: https://blackteapodcast.wixsite.com/podcast/post/episode-3-chamomile-tea-dr-jamye-hardy